Course cutting for 11's

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11 months 3 weeks ago - 11 months 1 week ago #21516 by DirtDgr
DirtDgr created the topic: Course cutting for 11's
Since its totally dead in here lets talk about something that bugs me.


Promoters cutting the course for 11's bugs me. I hate it.

The idea that finishing is less of an accomplishment when they do it, though, is unfair and a detriment to Class 11.

I hate when promoters do it. But most of them do in the US. SNORE and MORE do it almost every race. (VORRA did not last I raced)

Even the short ones like BAP and RATR, which an 11 can clearly do, are cut down on laps.

But those races do not get the backlash for doing it from some like SCORE does. WHY? all of them cut for the very same reason-time. So why do some have such a negative opinion when SCORE does it and openly say so, which is fine, but do not do it when SNORE does it with every race as well?

If one wins BAP or Caliente or Ridgecrest and does half the laps as the faster classes, is it less? Why is it only SCORE is the bad guy here?

The most recent example is comments about the cutting of a pretty big part of the 500 last night. SCORE made the change mid race for at least a couple reasons. Reasons that had nothing to do with the Class 11 racers. Still only one car made it. But they still did 70% of the entire course. Which is about the same percentage as most stateside races.

Let me reiterate. I am on your side! I hate when they do it. But I hate it when SNORE does it too, just as much. I just don't see how, or where the difference is.

Now I know the other promoters in Mexico do not cut and that is awesome. But they are not near as many miles either.

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Last Edit: 11 months 1 week ago by DirtDgr.

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11 months 3 weeks ago - 11 months 3 weeks ago #21517 by DirtDgr
DirtDgr replied the topic: Course cutting for 11's
In fact, the shortened races of SNORE is one of the reasons I never ventured down south my first few years of racing. I was amazed and didn't think it was worth 12 hours of driving for half a race. VORRA let us do every mile of every race I ever entered with them. Even the short course did the same laps. Even when we got lapped by faster cars, they would make sure we did all our laps and miles.

Many volunteers stayed up to the wee hours of the morning waiting for us 11's to finish in VORRA. Often we were the only cars left going out on our final loop.

But then all the 11's dispersed in VORRA. WSOB came up. It forced me to go south to race. I am glad I did, and will do it again of course.

#1103 still did 300+ miles of some of the roughest desert anywhere in very hot weather that killed one person possibly two. That is still much longer than ANY race in the states offered to Class 11's. It is, still, a big accomplishment.

Great job #1103!

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Thank You Lakeport Tire, Rugged Radios, Baja Designs, Sunoco, Two Larry's Racing
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Last Edit: 11 months 3 weeks ago by DirtDgr.

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11 months 3 weeks ago #21518 by Ewetho
Ewetho replied the topic: Course cutting for 11's
Cool for #1103. But was looking at Score website 3 of the 11 cars finished. #1167 and #1150 also finished. So 3 of the 7 cars in class had an official finish and Class 11 had a complete podium. Good job guys.

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11 months 2 weeks ago #21519 by EnseNADAslim
EnseNADAslim replied the topic: Course cutting for 11's
I can only imagine what was being said about the course cut in the 500. I heard there was quite the Buzz going on about it. I don't get it either,,, Even the Mint 400 is more like the Mint 200 (if that) for the 11's and other limited classes. But,,,you never hear a stink about that, and I've raced the Mint, and it does not even come close to stacking up against a race like the 500.
There was a big section cut out of the 500, yes, and there was a decision to cut it at about 6:00pm (ish) more or less. There was a bottle neck that cost about 2-3 hours of time, there was that horrific accident that stopped the race for an Hour and a half,,,so right there you are looking at well over 4 hours of time just----gone. Even at being at RM40 at 6:00 pm, we still had a remote chance.
My very first Baja 1000 had a course cut and no one complained then, there was no outrage... I'd say that just about every race I've been in, Mexico or US (which is just one) has had a course cut.
I know for Score, part of the whole finish line and extra time for 11's there is the "City Contract" that comes into play. The Start and Finish is not out in some remote area. It takes place in the busiest area of town. If you've never been there it's a mess. And, for those "back in my day..." Ensenada has changed, there's about double the amount of traffic from when you raced there. City contracts, workers, police, traffic control... all of this is put in stone in contract, and it cost money to keep the course open due to the amount of City workers involved. So at such and such hour,,,they have to start breaking down the finish line and life returns to normal. That is why they can't simply extend the time. They are trying,,,but not by much. There is always the simple solution and suggestion to just Extend the time,,,to do so would increase our entry fee.
So good question DirtDgr,,,why us 11 racers in Score? Why do we get beat up by other guys that have course cuts in their races? And yes, we are talking about a Race, and this particular race that took the lives of 3 people,,,!! Without that 120 mile cut, no one would have made it, there would have been no way to make up that time.
As a group of 11 drivers we do discuss this, we listen to Score's suggestions, and they give us the freedom to make the decision. Our original cut of 44 miles our of a 488 mile race is nothing that I would think would call for negative discussion. Everyone has the freedom to race where they want.
In a perfect world, without contracts, city workers, accessing public streets, awards ceremonies.... we'd probably have all the time in the world to finish a race.

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11 months 2 weeks ago - 11 months 2 weeks ago #21525 by DirtDgr
DirtDgr replied the topic: Course cutting for 11's
2015 SNORE 250 Top classes do 7 laps. Class 11 does 4 laps.

2015 RATR Top classes do 5 laps. Class 11 does 3.

2016 BAP Top classes do 10-12 laps. Class 11 does only 4 laps!

2016 SNORE Ridgecrest. Top classes do 5 laps. Class 11 only 3 laps.

And the awesome SNORE Caliente race coming up. In 2015 the Top classes did 4 while Class 11 did 3. Here is the kicker here. A couple Class 10 cars were over 6 hours, one almost 7, for a finish in 4 laps. Class 11 top 5 were all under 5 hours for three laps and could clearly have made 4 laps in that time. I think its time to push for 4 laps for Class 11 at this race!

I love SNORE! But if you rip on SCORE for cutting Class 11 laps or miles in the 500 or 1000, why wouldn't SNORE get the same? I imagine there was a time in SNORE Class 11 did actually do all the miles like everyone else?

I just don't think Baja is the Baja of old times, any more than racing in California is like in the 70's and 80's. Land restrictions, time restrictions, cost restrictions . All the inevitable, various things that have infected us here in the states are starting to affect Baja too.

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Last Edit: 11 months 2 weeks ago by DirtDgr.

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11 months 1 week ago - 11 months 1 week ago #21526 by DirtDgr
DirtDgr replied the topic: Course cutting for 11's
Just saw this on Racedez. MORE 250 in Barstow-

Classes 1, 6100, 10, 7200, 12, 1-2 1600, 5, - 6laps
•Classes 5/1600, 1400, 1350, 3000 - 5 laps
•Classes 9, 1900, 2000, 1300 - 4 laps
•Classes 11, 3, - 3 laps

3 laps! Half of what the top classes are doing. That is the MORE 125 for Class 11. That is exactly the same as cutting 500 miles from the 1000 or 250 miles out of the 500 for Class 11.

OK for MORE to do it. OK for SNORE to do it. Then logic says it must be ok for SCORE to do it.

I hate that any of them do it!

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Thank You Lakeport Tire, Rugged Radios, Baja Designs, Sunoco, Two Larry's Racing
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Last Edit: 11 months 1 week ago by DirtDgr.

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