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TOPIC: Too slow?

Too slow? 1 year 5 months ago #20980

  • dezertthing
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Is the current time allotted for the B1K enough to finish in a class 11, or are the racers now just too slow?

Flame on...
Scott Small

tripleXeleven racing

XXX 11 Motorsports
www.facebook.com/tripleXeleven/?ref=tn_tnmn
'73 Class 11
Owner build in progress
John Davis built DP 1600
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Too slow? 1 year 5 months ago #20981

  • 11BrosMotorsports
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Not enough time. To keep a 30 mph average on the roughest terrain you can think of is a little out of reach.
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Too slow? 1 year 5 months ago #20982

  • DaveCo11
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Too slow, Score basis its time limit on 25mph average, 20mph is not enough
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Too slow? 1 year 5 months ago #20984

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No offense to anyone, my first time racing Baja 1k, I have plenty of Barstow races (40?) and an overall Championship with MORE in my 9 car. A fan of the 1k for 30 years. So I can draw some comparison of terrain and also changes over years of vehicles.

Ensenada to Ojos you race a little dirt and then a little through town, your MPH is low for the turns, then you run a speed control of 37 mph for several miles on cement so your not making up the low MPH in town.

Ojos MM 28 to Urapan MM 70 is is as hard as Barstow on a bad day and its 50 miles of solid Barstow at its worst with no break.... EXCEPT you have long long steep steep hill climbs that for the most part you you have to take several run ups to clear, while waiting your turn, behind a off road car as big as a house who is stuck in front of you. Delays Delays Delays.

Long hill climbs, extended low speed road travel, miles long silt beds churned by 44 inch 1000 hp trucks, delays waiting for others to clear sections just eats the MPH.

Same with the course, if we are comparing the past to now look at tires and HP and sheer number of TT's running the course now. Every berm was a wall as tall as the car, and brake holes were twice as long and door high. This is not your Class 8 or early TT truck course. It is now eaten up by pre running and racing high HP giant tire monster cars.

I watched on course these guys throw those bugs at these hills.. wild balls out..No BS . I didnt see any sand bagging.

Before we say to slow I say try it now..

And look at this photo.. show me 35 mph in this crap. miles of it.

Anyways my 2 cents for a 70 miler run lol
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Jeepspeed #1797 and Stock Bug #1129
Last Edit: 1 year 5 months ago by 3 Amigos.
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Too slow? 1 year 5 months ago #20992

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I just read this post on RDC by Kent Kroeker.. sad to report there was a fatality this year.. I deleted that portion.. the rest could be used to give a recent view of Baja racing by a truck racer.

"So we should all feel it and do something about it. My belief is that we need some structural (top down, organizational) changes to occur if this sport is going to be sustainable, long term.

In mountain climbing, we talk a lot about subjective and objective danger. Subjective Danger is how well you apply the techniques, technology and skills you have in your climbing arsenal. Objective Danger is the stuff that's always waiting around to kill you - like avalanches, rockfall and weather.

In the desert racing context, Subjective Danger is a result of how many risks we take while driving, how we engineer our safety systems, welds, fasteners, the protocol our teams follow - it's what we're in control of.

Objective danger is the danger we can't influence - booby traps, silt beds, visibility etc.

Silt beds are not naturally occurring desert terrain, or what I consider to be "race course." They are a product of terrain that is overused and churned up by high horsepower and huge tires. Traversing a silt bed is not really relevant from a "racing skill" perspective. Getting through them successfully demonstrates that you either spent a lot of time prerunning and have established alternate lines or you have huge power and giant tires, four wheel drive, or a combination of all the above. But is this racing (driver skill) or engineering (building skill) that we're engaged in? How are we defining the term "competition?"

I don't want to sterilize our sport. It's the greatest motorsport in the world. It's an adventure every time. But we have to do something. This isn't the first time this has happened. But we all want it to be the last.

I don't think technology is the answer. That falls into the subjective category and its effectiveness will always be dependent on individual application of the gear.

However, we may want to collectively push SCORE to address the objective danger issue by:

1. Minimizing or eliminating silt beds in race courses. This entire course could have been engineered to run without crossing a single silt bed. This would minimize the chance of getting stuck and minimize the necessity to exit the vehicle to dig out in low visibility.

2. Minimizing the prerunning of certain areas that are known to develop silt beds.

3. Minimizing areas that are tight and can cause choke points and log jams.

4. If there are loose sections, maybe engineer the course so they can be crossed during daylight hours, when drivers have greater visibility and situational awareness. Or at least only choose sections where there are multiple line possibilities.

5. And don't call me a heretic, but maybe we just talk about this a bit: Giving some thought to a tire size rule that would negate the requirement for big power that results in big terrain damage. Example: 900 hp. wouldn't be advantageous with 35" tires. Unlimited cars on 35's could be smaller and lighter and tear up terrain less. Limited classes would have more of a chance because the tire size differential would be less. Long term terrain damage would be reduced, pacifying environmental concerns etc.

I know that sounds crazy but when the Class 11 guys can't even finish in the time limit, what does this say about where our sport is going? Isn't Class 11 supposed to be the unofficial mascot of Baja racing - sort of the ethos we all stand for, regardless of what class we actually race?

SCORE is making us run the same course over and over again - or making new course on virgin ground just to create miles. Over the years this stuff is going to get looser and looser and more and more dangerous. I preran the first day the course was legally open to prerun. I didn't see it again until raceday and it had become a silty nightmare - deeper than I've seen it in 20 years. I know there are land use and environmental issues, but there must be a workaround - at least on this particular issue.

To say, "that's how we've always done it" by stating, "our sport is just dangerous" or "accidents happen" is just straight ignorant, lazy and unbelievably disrespectful to the family who just lost a loved one. When an airliner crashes does a passenger who survives say to the families of the deceased, "oh well, air travel is dangerous, very dangerous, sorry for your loss?" Sickening. What actually happens is the NTSB performs an investigation that often results in protocol, process or procedure that prevents accidents of similar causes from occurring again.

After a series of horrendous crashes in Formula One, some good people got together and made some structural changes that saved a bunch of lives and took F1 from a circus act to a professional organization."
Jeepspeed #1797 and Stock Bug #1129
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Too slow? 1 year 5 months ago #20993

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I hope SCORE will never ever be where Formula One is now.

But the rest tells why the C11 is far away from finishing and in the end if they don't react this class will die in Baja1000
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