New SCORE RULE Book

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1 year 6 months ago #21436 by EnseNADAslim
EnseNADAslim replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
Yes, you can run tubing on the inside,,,no cattle/bush guard on the outside. Key is Stock, and I've understood that meaning you must retain stock brackets and must use Stock attachments,,, on my 69 I'm still using the Stock brackets to bolt it on, 3 one each side,,,and that's it. Not sure if that helps you our any,,,

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1 year 5 months ago #21443 by DirtDgr
DirtDgr replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
Skid plate can attach to the front of the bumper, but not go above it. It can also be made of any material.

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1 year 5 months ago #21474 by michaelbrenner
michaelbrenner replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
We broke off the entire front shock tower at Ridgecrest, what a bummer. If we allowed 'bracing' to the beam, playing devil's advocate, what would be the limit?

Since all the other mods we do to the car is essentially, use the stock part but add some metal to it, if you have a MIG welder and some 1/8" plate you could make the towers stronger and that would help the front stay together longer, maybe.

Yes my beam was old (had 7 races on it) and yes I hit some big bumps way too hard on accident that I should have avoided.......flame away......

I'm losing my motivation to build a new beam for this thing every season, would a little sheetmetal make it last longer? Can we fathom a change like this?

Congrats to Robert Johnson, I can't imagine how trashed your front end is after that race, lap 2 was gnarly & nasty

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1 year 5 months ago #21475 by pvmini
pvmini replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
I had the same thing happen 2 years ago at ridgecrest the schock tower broke off. All of the front beams out there are rusted and metal fatigue the rules were written 30 years ago when you could find good beams the rule should be changed so that we could add some metal for strength I think. Very rough course, good racing with you and Robert.

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1 year 5 months ago #21476 by Tapeworm
Tapeworm replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
So if there were to be a couple of changes to the rules, what would people be ok with?

I'm fine with beam bracing as it is an inexpensive modification that will make parts last longer.

One rule I would like to see go is the stupid 18 inch rear shock rule. Everyone has already figured out the way to get around this so why not just let us run a 12 inch 2.0? it's way cheaper than buying or making these stupid custom side mount shocks. And before I get flamed away for this, I just paid for a set of the stupid custom side mount shocks so I'm not looking at cutting costs by getting that type of rule opened up right now.

Those would be the only modifications to current rules that I could see being reasonable right now.
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1 year 5 months ago #21477 by DaveCo11
DaveCo11 replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
All I will say is nearly 99.9 percent of the class 11 cars both north and south have copied my shocks in the rear, I tried to get Score to allow just a normal shock at the time as it would be much easier but they would not budge and the cat has been let out of the bag on it meaning a lot of money has been spent. My shocks are just normal shocks that I put a bump can sleave over and welded a eye on the side so cost wise was as cheap as can be. Its rediculis how the shock MFG gouge so much just to put a eye on the side but like I said to many have it to change that now. Class 11 went to far in my opinion but there is no turning back now.. I have the same front beam and shock towers I built my car with, yes there is a secret that prevents them from ever braking and it has absoloutly nothing to do with the front end not keeping up with the rear like I have read some say as you will be hard pressed to find a car that goes better than ours but I find it hard to believe racers are not figuring it out. I find no reason to take class 11 any farther from original than it is and I am on the fence about allowing plated front ends. That takes away from the spirit of class 11, its up to you to figure out how to finish with out braking front ends etc as plating takes the easy way out. 51600 was designed for racers who could not handle the stock vw rules of class 11. 516 is a great class but class 11 does not need to come any closer to that class..

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1 year 5 months ago #21478 by 1054044
1054044 replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book

DaveCo11 wrote: All I will say is nearly 99.9 percent of the class 11 cars both north and south have copied my shocks in the rear, I tried to get Score to allow just a normal shock at the time as it would be much easier but they would not budge and the cat has been let out of the bag on it meaning a lot of money has been spent. My shocks are just normal shocks that I put a bump can sleave over and welded a eye on the side so cost wise was as cheap as can be. Its rediculis how the shock MFG gouge so much just to put a eye on the side but like I said to many have it to change that now. Class 11 went to far in my opinion but there is no turning back now.. I have the same front beam and shock towers I built my car with, yes there is a secret that prevents them from ever braking and it has absoloutly nothing to do with the front end not keeping up with the rear like I have read some say as you will be hard pressed to find a car that goes better than ours but I find it hard to believe racers are not figuring it out. I find no reason to take class 11 any farther from original than it is and I am on the fence about allowing plated front ends. That takes away from the spirit of class 11, its up to you to figure out how to finish with out braking front ends etc as plating takes the easy way out. 51600 was designed for racers who could not handle the stock vw rules of class 11. 516 is a great class but class 11 does not need to come any closer to that class..


As long as your strokes aren't fully compressed/extended at full bump/droop I don't see why you'd brake shock towers unless your bump stops are flimsy enough to allow full extension/compression when they deflect. Second throwing an eyelet on the side of a stock shock, it's not a very difficult part to make especially when you can buy prefab spherical housings and such.

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1 year 5 months ago #21479 by pvmini
pvmini replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
The only "trick" I can think of is to make the front shock tower one of the roll cage mounting points ---- does everyone think this is legal? That would solve the problem---any thoughts on that Dave?

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1 year 5 months ago #21480 by DaveCo11
DaveCo11 replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
here is the issue, most everyone considers every bar in the car roll cage but that is not the way tech looks at it, ROLL CAGE is only what is required in the car not bars going forward or back. braking shock towers has nothing much to do with front limiters unless they were done with out a shock on the front, plating or running bars to the front shock towers is not class 11 and to me is making it anything but a class 11. Sit back and think what else would make towers come off the beam? nearly all shocks made for class 11 are to long to begin with but what else can take towers? I know the answer as I have never once lost or cracked a tower in 41 plus years competing in these cars but nearly everyone else is braking multiple towers. Maybe I will answer later..
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1 year 5 months ago #21482 by pvmini
pvmini replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
I agree with you completely Dave, the bars running forward have nothing to do with the "cage" that is why my shock towers are not braced to it. That would not be legal in my opinion just wondered what other people thought. The problem is not my hook stops they are set not to let the shock top out or bottom out. I understand why you do not want to give away all your secrets --- you have given us plenty -- I will have to give it some more thought.

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1 year 5 months ago #21483 by Ewetho
Ewetho replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
By rotating the front control arms down for ground clearance you would be moving the lower shock mount forward. This in turn would cause torquing of the upper shock mount as it cycles as it is always loading up since it is no longer in its proper plain of moment.

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1 year 5 months ago #21485 by DirtDgr
DirtDgr replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book

Ewetho wrote: By rotating the front control arms down for ground clearance you would be moving the lower shock mount forward. This in turn would cause torquing of the upper shock mount as it cycles as it is always loading up since it is no longer in its proper plain of moment.



Hmmm. But I would think the rubber spacers at the top would take care of that movement as its very little difference. The hole in the shock tower is larger than the shock shaft at the top too. Seems unlikely to me that would do it.

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1 year 5 months ago - 1 year 5 months ago #21486 by DirtDgr
DirtDgr replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
I have not broken a shock tower, yet. I dread the day it happens. I have had to replace my beam though. Twice. Once because of a roll. Once because it was developing so many cracks.

I saw a broken one once, that Team CBCFS #1116, broke in Baja. It came apart at the very top.

Is it FOX or Bilstein? I run Bilstein fronts and rear.

My thought is that the culprit has to be the rubber stop at the bottom of the shock and/or the shock shaft inside the shock at the top? I know the hook stop is supposed to stop everything going up, but there has to be a little flex that happens in a hard hit. Possibly a lot? So I would think the hook stop at the beam does not necessarily completely stop everything in a very hard hit. Think about all that weight and leverage smacking that little hook stop. There is a lot of leverage, weight, and inertia being thrown up. Heck what about the down stroke after a huge upstroke? We all know what can happen there! lol. Sorry.

So. Is it possible that even with the hook and rod at the beam and the bottom rubber stopper on the shaft, and the lower rubber stopper at the shock tower that everything goes just a little further? Especially in a big hit, or three in a row, or hundreds?

Now what is happening inside the shock? Is the shaft itself hitting and going beyond where it should go? I don't know. I have not learned how to work on my shocks myself yet, but I intend too. I don't know how they look inside.

But this class is supposed to be a "Working mans/womans" class. I don't think that meant the more work the better. I think it means that the easier it can be for the working man, on the wallet and his time, the better. Changing out a front beam is a race ending break. Its time consuming and costly if you don't have the parts laying around already. If it will help I got no problem with being able to add some metal to the beam and shock tower to make it better for the working mans class. It's still Class 11 in spirit if you read the original intent imo. Even more so. Cheap, easy, possible fixes to things should be ok! Heck we beef up the rear arms. Even get to cut out stock rear shock mounts. But the front is blasphemy? Why?

Anyhow I hope you will share this and more secrets with us Dave. Once the kid gets in that 1600 he wont want to be in a slow Class 11 anymore lol! Your and Cisco's car are clearly on another level from the drop of the flag. It's apparent in the first 100 yards.

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Last Edit: 1 year 5 months ago by DirtDgr.

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1 year 5 months ago #21491 by bugged
bugged replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
put a go pro under there and watch how much the tower bends down and up, I did. Metal is only going to bend so many times then it breaks. Take a look at your towers they start a crack right above the top tube. And it usually is a passenger side tower you break because the driver tends to put the passenger side in the rough. I also suspect stiff valving may aide in the failure of a shock tower, i have not had good luck with towers and have broken off 4 in 10 years of racing. Dave picks good lines, knows how to drive fast and make it look easy. I think its a culmination of several things but you race a beam long enough you will break the tower off

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1 year 4 months ago #21492 by michaelbrenner
michaelbrenner replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
Thanks for the hints Robert, I have a new beam in the works, just cut and turned it (a lot) and welded the shock towers, now time for stops and spindles. Use the new TIG machine on this project, looking way better than my MIG jobs in the past but not quite stacking dimes yet, at least is all melting together :blink: I know we have broken the shock tower 3 times now and that is getting old, see you at rage at the river or maybe sooner if 1600 car is getting delayed more in testing this fall.

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1 year 4 months ago #21494 by DaveCo11
DaveCo11 replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
all right, the biggest enemy your shock tower has is shock valving, everyone is trying to make the front better and better and blows the tower off. My shock valving dates back to the 1970s and I learned long ago the shocks have to be soft on compression or you will lose the tower. Mine have not so much as cracked since I built the car, the beam is welded into my car and has 7 years of hard racing on it. My 67 the beam is the original beam from the 70s when we built the car so if that isnt enough proof I dont know what else to say. BUT how soft do you go??? Hmm may answer some other time.
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1 year 4 months ago #21495 by michaelbrenner
michaelbrenner replied the topic: New SCORE RULE Book
Thanks for spilling the beans DaveCo, back to bilstein the front shocks go for a revalve.........Gotta admit, I'm excited to see what these changes do. We have been through several iterations during the last few years, doing some new things hopefully in the right direction :unsure:

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